5rl or 7rl?

lamb of god · 12 Dec 2012

Hey guys...just need a quick advice, i'm doing my first tribal...even though not big fills but lots of lines

and I thought I should know what would be better for this piece before I regret it

I was thinking of using 7rl and 5rs?

btw look on the two letters..the upper one was my first tat with kuro sumi...I know it needs a touch up...but the other one that he got at shop...the black looks way better...what is better black outline ink than kuro sumi?

AksysGamer · 12 Dec 2012

Honestly I dont really think there is a better outline ink than Kuro Sumi....

And Id go with the 5RL if youre confident enough to do that outline without mistakes, but if you arent Id go with the 7 because they will be bolder and look less obvious.

Im not an expert though, just my thoughts.

maggot · 13 Dec 2012

personally after looking at your other tats i would say your a long way off nailing this tattoo also the shops tattoo is blacker because he put the colour in better but hey do what you want

boaz · 13 Dec 2012

Sam please reconcider hold back until you lay this down on some pig paper p skin...if your asking advice about wich pins to use then you need more practice and you will do good in the end

lamb of god · 13 Dec 2012

boaz said:
Sam please reconcider hold back until you lay this down on some pig paper p skin...if your asking advice about wich pins to use then you need more practice and you will do good in the end

I am going to do this on pig first, I asked that question because I always use 7rl and thought 5rl would be better in this piece. Most likely i'm going for 7rl for thicker lines, right now I feel somewhat confident with my lining because of last chest script I did, and after one time of doing this on pig, i'm sure it will be way easier for me to do

Sylence · 13 Dec 2012

HI Sammer ,
U Know i would never judge someone , but my lovely friend Boaz:icon_cheesygrin: is rigth this time. Not becouse the needles , more about that peace instead , this one is realy complex . For your first Tribal i would take some more solid peace .
Needles i would preffer 7Rl an a 7 / 9 RS ( ive learned over the time that u always start with smaller needles)
I know we are all here for learning so its for sure that we ask alot of questions . so maybe u sit down with ur client and tell him this time to not do this , or a more solid black one.
I use ala prima black , its also realy good

TexasPT · 13 Dec 2012

Good luck...don't think I'd attempt this one. It's a very complex design and even though it stings the ego, you have to be willing to say "no". I've done it a lot...and still not as often as I should have in the beginning.

If I were going to try I'd probably go 7.

Oh...and it's not the kuro sumi outlining ink, it's your technique on that one. There are spots in there that look just fine...ink doesn't pick and choose where in the tattoo it will saturate, that's up to you.

I would suggest trying to talk him into something like this:

View attachment 8199

Still a tribal dragon but your potential for jacking it all up because you run out of talent is lessened dramatically.

Good luck.

Mark

lamb of god · 13 Dec 2012

hmm...I made it into a stencil...and wow so many lines lol

Here's my idea, I will attempt this on pig skin, and post it on here like always. If it's good and you guys agree then I will go ahead and do it. If it's bad, I will refuse to do the tattoo, bro gets pissed off and possibly goes and do it at the shop like the second Chinese symbol lol! or let him pick a less complicated one like mark suggested

seems like a good plan to me

TexasPT · 13 Dec 2012

I can tell you from experience that is SUCKS to stare at a picture of a tattoo you had no business attempting. Because you know it could have been avoided. You can dodge a bullet here.

Is the stencil your tracing or photo edited? If that isn't from your hand...I'd say try and recreate that with a pencil. See how it goes.

Kinky · 13 Dec 2012

Heres a Idea, Do 2 of them of pig skin. One with a 5 and one with a 7 and what difference you can find while doing it.
It should help with picking needles in the future.

And all the artist I know who use Kuro Sumi use Kuro Sumi - Double Sumi not the lining ink.
But Talens is where its at!!!!

lamb of god · 13 Dec 2012

Kinky said:
Heres a Idea, Do 2 of them of pig skin. One with a 5 and one with a 7 and what difference you can find while doing it.
It should help with picking needles in the future.

And all the artist I know who use Kuro Sumi use Kuro Sumi - Double Sumi not the lining ink.
But Talens is where its at!!!!

I have never heard of double sumi, I just looked it up, and it looks like that it's only sold as 1oz bottles for $9. kuro outline is $25 for 12oz, if I get the 1oz bottles it would cost $100+ for 12oz lol

But I defiantly want to try it in the future for tribal or solid black, I will probably get 1 1oz bottle

and talens is for tribal too right? says it's very dark

troub1edsou1z · 13 Dec 2012

First as the artist, you should see right off the bat that this design is bad, and if you attempt it and mess up, you have now just made a bad design into a horribel tattoo. If you attempt it and it comes out fine, you've just made a bad design into a bad tattoo. The choice is yours, and you need to know when a piece won't work, regardless of how bad the customer wants it. It's your reputation.

Now what makes this piece a bad design? First of all the whole thing just doesn't flow. It's a traditional japanese dragon made into tribal. Bad idea. Second is looking where the head crosses the body. Big no no for (tribal). It's hard to decipher the head from the body on paper. Just think of how hard it will be after it's tattooed. Also if you happen to get any blowouts, it's going to turn into a blob.

I strongly suggest a different design of something that flows together. just something to think about. Like I said it's your choice....

Kinky · 13 Dec 2012

lamb of god said:
I have never heard of double sumi, I just looked it up, and it looks like that it's only sold as 1oz bottles for $9. kuro outline is $25 for 12oz, if I get the 1oz bottles it would cost $100+ for 12oz lol

But I defiantly want to try it in the future for tribal or solid black, I will probably get 1 1oz bottle

and talens is for tribal too right? says it's very dark

I use Talens for everthing, Lining, Grey Wash and solid black (so does my mentor)
I did try Sumi once and just though it was shite and yeah it was real but like it everthing in tattoo its all personal preference

boaz · 13 Dec 2012

Kinky said:
I use Talens for everthing, Lining, Grey Wash and solid black (so does my mentor)
I did try Sumi once and just though it was shite and yeah it was real but like it everthing in tattoo its all personal preference

u in a studio matey

Kinky · 14 Dec 2012

Yeah I am bud

lamb of god · 20 Dec 2012

Thanks for the advice guys, I have tried to do the stencil myself and it is a lot of detailed lines. I told my brother to find a different design for the tribal dragon, and he decided that he will go with this

also it will be 2/3 the size of the dragon on his arm in first picture

I will be using a 7rs for fill and 7rl for lining. I want to have thick lines on this one (9rl) but i'm still not sure about that, will probably test it on pig with a 9rl to make sure

Kinky · 20 Dec 2012

lamb of god said:
will probably test it on pig with a 9rl to make sure

:thumbsup:

Sylence · 20 Dec 2012

Much much better , why u use a smaller needle (7rs) to fill , and a bigger to line ( 9rl) ?
Try both 9 needles

lamb of god · 20 Dec 2012

Sylence said:
Much much better , why u use a smaller needle (7rs) to fill , and a bigger to line ( 9rl) ?
Try both 9 needles

It's because I have 5, 7, and 11rs
I don't have 9rs, and for the 11rs I have 14 round tube for it which I don't like using cuz it moves a lot
so I thought 7rs with a 5 round rube would be good

TexasPT · 20 Dec 2012

lamb of god said:
It's because I have 5, 7, and 11rs
I don't have 9rs, and for the 11rs I have 14 round tube for it which I don't like using cuz it moves a lot
so I thought 7rs with a 5 round rube would be good

Get the right tool for the job. that's my advice. Make whoever you're tattooing order it if you can't afford it.

Glad you changed the design.

TattooJay · 20 Dec 2012

To answer your question I would go with a 7RL, you said the original design had a lot of lines but you were willing to do it on piggy. So I would do just that. A lot of lines = good practice. Then what ever design you decide to do no matter what you will be better by putting in some machine time.

Want better then Kuro & Talens in my opinion:

Bluebird | Waverly Color

Nice clean in that is real black, does not get messy or stick to the skin like Kuro, blacker then talens. Will not heal ashy. heals great. You can use this one for, outlines, washes, and fills.

boaz · 20 Dec 2012

Yep bluebird is great to work with very smooth but bills dark black is blacker

wdhtrim · 20 Dec 2012

the new design is much better for a tat good call ... on ink its all preference for sure but try zuper black its awesome and sooooo black just my 2 cents ... good luck

Danicholas2233 · 23 Apr 2021

Uuuuh...... help!

5rl or 7rl?

lamb of god

AksysGamer

Welcome To The Carnival

maggot

boaz

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lamb of god

Sylence

TexasPT

lamb of god

TexasPT

Kinky

lamb of god

troub1edsou1z

Kinky

boaz

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Kinky

lamb of god

Kinky

Sylence

lamb of god

TexasPT

TattooJay

boaz

here to help and learn

wdhtrim

Danicholas2233

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